Self-care isn't a luxury, it's necessary for sustainable living
Show Notes
Host CortneyJo sits down with her "friendgirls" Dr. Jill Zambito and Dr. Jada Russell for an intimate lunchtime conversation about the essential practices of pausing, healing, and resetting. These three colleagues from the University of Tennessee share personal stories and practical wisdom about why self-care isn't a luxury, it's necessary for sustainable living.
Episode Highlights:
(00:00) Welcome and Introduction
(00:46) Meet My Friends: Dr. Jill and Dr. Jada Russell
(02:25) The Importance of Pausing
(03:10) Personal Stories of Pausing
(12:58) Recognizing When You're on Empty
(17:53) Physical Wellness and Healing
(25:45) Yoga and Roller Skating Adventures
(26:52) Finding Your Thing
(27:04) The Concept of Grace and Self-Care
(28:48) Spiritual Connection and Personal Growth
(30:21) Embracing the Pause and Celebrating Rest
(34:09) Audience Questions and Caregiving Advice
(43:52) Supporting Self-Care in Relationships
(47:30) Final Thoughts and Blessings
Transcript
CortneyJo: Hey, MUCH Woman family. Thank you so much for tuning in this morning, afternoon. It’s lunch time, y’all, and I hope all of you, all who are waiting and been waiting to sit with us, I hope that you are now, right, now, at lunch. You got something to eat, you ready to hang out. You hanging out and got stuff to do.
Also, just want to let you know as I’m getting things started here, just want to let you know if you ever have any questions throughout our time together, please send those. I have my phone right here. I am looking at those questions, so if you have anything, please put those in the chat. We will be so excited to answer those. So, all right, y’all.
I cannot wait to introduce to y’all my two of my favorite friendgirls. Look at these beautiful women right here.
Dr. Zambito: [laugh].
Dr. Russell: Thank you.
CortneyJo: Hi, y’all.
Dr. Zambito: Hey.
Dr. Russell: Hello.
Dr. Zambito: Thanks for having us.
CortneyJo: Y’all, I am so very pleased to have Dr. Jill Zambito and Dr. Jada Russell here with me. These are my two friends. I know I’m introducing them very formally because I just want to, but they are my incredible friendgirls. And I do lunch with them. I do lunch with Jill and Jada and we all work together.
We work at the university together and work in different departments and things like that. But one of the things that I love about these two women so much is that when we get together in lunch, we lunch. Not only do we eat and we try to find—Jill’s really good at, like, introducing you to new restaurants and things like that. Jada and I, we got our spot. We got one spot we go to and we go eat together, and we do not talk about work.
Dr. Zambito: Rarely. Yeah, rarely.
Dr. Russell: Yeah, agree.
CortneyJo: Like, I mean, and not that anything is wrong with talking about work, right? You know because sometimes you might need to chat a little bit about a situation or a circumstance. You might need some perspective, but what’s always been so wonderful for me is that I get to hang out with y’all, and we get to talk about our lives and who we are as women, and that means so much to me, so thank you so much for giving me that. And you all have given me that for five years now. I cannot believe I’ve been here for five years.
And when you all introduce and share a little bit more about yourself, if you want to, talk about how long you’ve you know, been working things like that, but we’re here to talk about—I have my little cue card, y’all—we are here to talk about what it looks like to pause, to heal, and to reset, and why those things are not optional, but they’re essential. So, these women, they have amazing different stories and amazing stories about wellness, and we’re going to explore all of that together. And so, I do have some questions for you, and feel free to answer however you want to answer, but let’s just have a conversation like we do at lunch. And even though y’all we don’t have no food in front of us. We did just eat.
Dr. Zambito: We did.
Dr. Russell: We did. It was delicious.
CortneyJo: It was good.
Dr. Zambito: Thank you.
Dr. Russell: Thank you.
Dr. Zambito: Thank you for feeding us.
CortneyJo: We ate. So, that’s what we got to do. Okay. All right, so let’s start with the pause. Let’s start with the pause. Jill, Jada, what does giving yourself permission to pause look like in life right now? Either one of you feel comfortable to start whenever you’re ready.
Dr. Russell: Well thanks, first off, for having us here. This is a wonderful experience for us, and I’m hoping that we can share with others, as I call it, an evolution, a growing journey. So, for me, pause was not something I saw modeled at home. It’s not something that I grew up doing. My grandmothers, my mother were always working, always just caretakers, always giving. They rarely, you know, went to go get their nails done or had the opportunity to go get hair, massage. My mom still would not get a massage.
Dr. Zambito: [laugh].
Dr. Russell: She finds it uncomfortable. But those things were not things that I saw modeled, so for me, I had to learn—or relearn—what is a pause or what is a break? Because for me, growing up, a break meant that I was weak or that I’m not strong enough to continue on, and for me, I’m learning that, you know, I don’t necessarily deserve a break, it’s not something that I earn, but it’s something that is essential. It’s something for me. It’s something for me to continue moving forward and continue growing and going. And you can’t continue pouring from an empty cup.
CortneyJo: That is right. Thank you for that. Jill, you have any thoughts on that? What does pause look like for you?
Dr. Zambito: Yeah, I think it depends on the time of day, honestly. So, I’m thinking of, like, some wellness habits, and I’m hoping that we can talk about making, causing a habit, so that it’s not, like, this privileged thing that we aspire to do, that it’s just a part of our daily practice. But for me, it is being intentional about my time, and so whether that’s grabbing coffee with a colleague or a friend or going to lunch and actually just talking about life, sometimes it might be at work. If I’m dealing with something that’s super stressful, knowing that my body and my mind need a break afterward, and so I literally will either go solo or I’ll walk through my suite at work and say, “Does anyone need to be walked?”
And for anyone who wants to join, we’ll go on a quick walk just to get a few steps in, and also, like, to shift your frame of mind so, like, you can be done with something and kind of start anew. I think pausing also could mean for me exercising or, like, going to a yoga class. It could also mean going to see a doctor, right? Like, it could be so many different things.
CortneyJo: Oh, go ahead, Jada.
Dr. Russell: You mentioned going for a walk, and I think people know me by now, working on campus. I’ve been on campus—I arrived in Knoxville in 2004 as a student, and I started working—I know—a few years ago, [laugh] and I started working at the University of Tennessee in 2009, and that is a practice that I’ve tried to maintain is go for a walk. So, I have my tennis shoes underneath my desk—
Dr. Zambito: Oh, nice.
Dr. Russell: And I found that when I began to pause and intentionally take myself out for a walk, it helps to release stress. So, then it became a part of my self-care routine. So, like you were saying—
Dr. Zambito: Yeah, that’s a habit.
Dr. Russell: It’s a habit, yeah. So, making it a habit, now I look forward to it. People also know that I’m going to have that time carved out to do it. So, if I don’t do it, now my colleagues will come and find me and say, “Is everything okay? I haven’t seen you walking in a while.” [laugh] so that’s something that I feel that has made it helpful for me.
Dr. Zambito: Yeah. And do people join you? Or do you prefer—
Dr. Russell: Yes.
Dr. Zambito: Okay.
Dr. Russell: Some people join me. Sometimes I put my headphones on and talk with my mom, give her an update on the kids, you know. Or sometimes I want to intentionally not engage and I want to hear the birds chirping. I usually do that early in the morning. I will go walking around my neighborhood around 6:30, before it’s time to get out the house, before everyone gets moving, if I can, just to go outside, connect with nature. I’m really big about connecting with nature.
CortneyJo: Listen, love this. So, can y’all see why these are my friendgirls?
All: [laugh].
CortneyJo: Favorite. My favorite friendgirls because of this right here because of this kind of, you know, thought process. Like, knowing what it’s like to take care of yourself, like that’s okay. So, that leads me to my next question, and please feel free to continue the banter, as we’ve been doing—remember, we had lunch—so was there ever a time when slowing down felt like a failure to you? I know you mentioned that a little bit that you know it made you feel weak, but I want both of you to all to share about what changed that mindset. Like, if slowing down felt like failure, why?
Dr. Zambito: Yeah. Do you have thoughts? [pause] okay. I think for me, it was early on in my career. And my professional identity is probably one of my most salient identities—which is maybe a good thing and maybe a bad thing, depending on the day—and I think I learned habits as an undergrad and as a graduate student that then translated into my first position.
And they weren’t helpful habits, but they were habits that I witnessed my mentors taking on, and so I just thought that that was like the only way forward, like you had to work 80 hours a week to be successful, and then, luckily, quickly realized that’s not the case, and it’s not sustainable and it’s not healthy. And I want to give some credit, if I can, to one of my first bosses in my first professional position out of grad school. He became my boss, I think, like, the second year I was at this institution, and he told me, “Jill, my approach to working with employees as it relates to taking vacation or annual leave, is that you should never have to ask for permission to take it.”
And just hearing him say that, I think as a young professional, it really hit home for me because I felt kind of fearful of asking, “Can I take vacation?” And he was like, “You earn your vacation. You earn your sick time. As long as your work is covered and your staff is supported, like, take care of yourself.” And he has no idea what an impact that conversation had on me, but all that to say, he helped undo some of those bad habits where I used to identify with being an overworker, right? But it’s not… it’s not something that we should elevate, I don’t think.
CortneyJo: Well said.
Dr. Russell: I will dovetail on that comment about overachieving, and I consider myself very ambitious because that’s how we have been so successful, right? We see the challenge, we gladly, graciously accept the challenge, we want to continue striving. And I think CJ and I were talking about this probably a couple of weeks ago at lunch, about this idea of striving, and striving is great, and you want to have motivation, but then you also want to have a time for care. And they don’t always coexist, or we don’t really realize how they can coexist until we take a minute to pause to think through that.
And it’s okay because in anything in life, you would water it, you would feed it, you would take care of it. In any other aspect of our life, except for ourselves; we don’t always do that. So, I began to approach it in that way, and when I approach it in that way, I feel less guilty taking a break. That is essential. It’s a part of me caring for myself.
CortneyJo: I love that, that you shared that, and thank you both. And I want to be honest here. I am still figuring this out, which is why I love when we go to lunch, I get to learn from you, and you kind of share these things with me, and it’s why I love y’all so much. Because y’all, you both have given me the opportunity to pause, you know? I really am, and it’s hard. It’s really hard.
And honestly, and for those of you all that have been tracking with MUCH Woman for the last year now you probably know. You’ve maybe watched the episode with my personal therapist, Brian Humphries, Dr. Brian Humphries, he was here. And I have had to go back and see him, not because it’s any—you know, I just needed a—he told me, he said, yeah he said, even if you need, like, a Tylenol or something, he was like, “If you feel like you got a headache, just come see me.” Well, I felt like I had a headache, and I went and seen him.
But we were talking yesterday, he and I were talking yesterday, and we were talking about just being. And I said, “Brian, I don’t know if I know how to just be. I don’t know if I know how to just be.” And so, we were talking through that, and what that looks like. So, I want to tell y’all that kind of hold me accountable.
So, next time we do lunch, we need to talk about CJ learning how to just be. Because I do feel the guilt. I do feel like… I feel like I’m going to lose something, you know, if I don’t—if I’m not constantly—
Dr. Russell: Striving.
CortneyJo: —yeah, doing something. I feel like, well, does this mean I’m not working? Does this mean—you know? And so, that is one of the things that you know—this is why this is so important to me to talk about this because I know that it’s very real for people. And so, I wanted to ask you both, how do you recognize when you’re operating on empty, you know? And you both have given us some practical things, of things you do, but how do you know, like, okay, I’m empty right now? How do you know that?
Dr. Russell: I would say my body will shut down, I will have a headache, my back, I carry a lot of my stress in my body, and I notice I have limited movement, and that will be my first sign to stop, schedule a massage, get some me time, connect with nature. And if I begin to ignore it, [laugh] it will get worse. And I have had a chiropractor, I have a massage therapist, but eventually, you know, you have those appointments on your calendar, you mentioned earlier, and then work starts, and you begin to cancel those appointments because you’re trying to strive at work. And then you get further behind, and you look up and realize you have this account that now has three massages available because you haven’t used them.
So, those are some of my signs to know I need to stop. And thankfully, my work environment is very supportive of that because I think we have all realized—we’re at this point in our life where we all have realized we need to care for one another, and when we do that, we begin to have more excelling to occur. We are functioning better as a group when that occurs. And I call those sessions with my counselor a tune up.
CortneyJo: Yeah.
Dr. Russell: And I’ll say, “I need a tune up.” I also share that with my students: sometimes you need a tune up. Sometimes you have your maintenance, right, and everything’s going well, but just like with the car, if you have a flat tire, if you have something to happen in the emergency situation that you did not foresee coming, then you may need a tune up. And that’s what I’ll tell my therapist, “I need a tune up.” And she will usually prioritize our time together to get to me.
Dr. Zambito: That’s great.
CortneyJo: That’s good. How do you know when you’re all empty, Jill?
Dr. Zambito: I think for me—I resonate with what Jada was saying, that my body shuts down, just maybe in a different way. Like, I’m more prone to illness when I’m on E. The other part, if my husband were here, he would say I’m an extreme extrovert, and so I really derive energy from other people, and I always want to be in the presence of others, and so when I’m on E, I might say to him, “I don’t want to see anyone right now.” Or, like, I want to cancel social plans. And that’s, like, a red flag, I think, in our family, you know? Jill doesn’t want to see people? So—
CortneyJo: Something’s wrong.
Dr. Zambito: Yeah, yeah.
CortneyJo: Yeah. You know, I’m still trying to—like, I know I am very social too, and love to—I think it’s like I am really still learning this, you know, really, like, okay, when am I on E because I can just go, y’all. I can go, go, go, go, go. It was so funny, I was talking to my best friend, and she and I were talking about her coming for this weekend, Fourth of July, and I was like, “Oh, you know, I get back”—as you all know, I just got back from Japan, and I said, “I’ll get back from Japan, you know, one in the morning on Friday.” It’s like, “Yeah, we can go to Dollywood on Friday.” Like, I got—like, my plane landed, [laugh] and I didn’t get home till 1 a.m. on Friday. And I was planning to go to Dollywood, y’all.
So, she texted me, I think, Sunday. She said, “How you feeling?” You know, and I was telling her, and she said, “What if we would have went to Dollywood, CJ?” I’m like, “Oh, my God. Oh, my God, I can’t even believe”—so just to give you some examples, that’s me.
Oh, if the day is open, it doesn’t—sometimes it doesn’t matter. Like, okay, you just were 13 hours ahead. I’m like, “Oh, the day is open. I’m just going to do this.” So y’all, I need some accountability.
Dr. Zambito: Yeah, I’m glad that you regrouped on that one [laugh]
Dr. Russell: Yes.
CortneyJo: Well, we decided before I left that Dollywood wasn’t going to happen, but we didn’t talk about it in terms of, “Are you going to feel okay?” I think we just—the schedule just didn’t work out. But then she was like, “How did you think about”—I’m like, I don’t even know why I was trying to go to Dollywood. But okay.
Dr. Zambito: You were excited to see her.
Dr. Russell: You were—exactly. You were excited—
CortneyJo: But that’s what I do.
Dr. Russell: —and you wanted to fill your cup.
CortneyJo: Yes.
Dr. Russell: Yes.
CortneyJo: But that’s what I’ll do. Is that I won’t—like, CortneyJo, you need time to rest.
Dr. Russell: You do.
CortneyJo: And I didn’t think that, you know what I mean? So, I’ll sleep on the plane. No, no, y’all. I’m still getting over the jet lag. So, let’s talk about the heal. So, we just talked about the pause, we talked about pausing, what pausing looks like. You all talked about habits. One of the things I like to say is that practice makes permanent, not practice makes perfect. So, if we put something into practice, it becomes permanent. So, if we practice pausing, it does become permanent in our lives. Let’s talk about the heal: physical wellness. Can you share a time when you had to make a physical health decision for your well-being?
Dr. Zambito: So, the first thing that comes to mind with that question that it’s something it’s very literal, but in the fall, I was diagnosed with a health condition. And—I’m okay, and you’ve been a part of my health journey. That condition has really made me think about my physical wellness differently. One of my symptoms is a racing heart, and so I physically can feel my heart racing when I don’t think it should [laugh].
And so, kind of modifying my movement, my exercise, my yoga practice, and just literally listening to my body. Again, it’s a very literal interpretation, but it’s something I’m very mindful and conscious of, and I think it’s maybe made me understand other people going through health stuff too, and really encouraging people to listen to their body and trust your gut on something if it doesn’t feel right. So—
CortneyJo: That’s good.
Dr. Russell: Yeah. And thank you for your support.
CortneyJo: And thank you for—I remember telling you, when you were sharing that with me, I said, “Jill, thank you so much for doing what you needed to do to take care of you.” I think I was like hugging you, like, “Thank you for doing what you needed.”
Dr. Zambito: You were [laugh]. And I love that.
Dr. Russell: [laugh].
CortneyJo: [laugh]. I’m one of them friends. But yeah, thank you. Yeah, thank you for that. I was so grateful, like, thank you. Because sometimes, like you said, you know, we can notice even you’re not trusting your gut, oh, it’s nothing. It’s nothing.
Dr. Zambito: Right.
CortneyJo: That’s why I was thanking you so much that day for not ignoring.
Dr. Zambito: Yeah. Thank you.
Dr. Russell: So, for me, I would just say to keep my appointments. Schedule my appointments—
CortneyJo: Oh, that’s good, Jada.
Dr. Russell: And keep the appointments [laugh].
CortneyJo: [laugh].
Dr. Russell: —with my PCP, my primary care physician. I have a nurse practitioner for my primary care, my dentist appointment, like, making the appointments and keeping the appointments, I would say, would be a part of my journey to health. And in that process and my thoughts, I think of this idea of worthy. You know, sometimes we think, well, you know, I can make this work. I can push this over. I need to get my spouse something. I need to get the kids something. And you move that appointment. You shift it.
And for me, my husband would ask, “Why didn’t you keep it? Why didn’t you prioritize it?” And when I had the opportunity to really dig deep, it was the idea of worthy. Like, am I worthy to keep this appointment? Well, it’s really not that bad. It’s really okay. I can keep pushing it off.
So, this summer, I finally went to a physical therapist for my knee [laugh]. It’s something that’s been ongoing. I was in a fender bender car accident in 2020. I finally went 2025. So, that’s one of those things where you just keep pushing it off. It’s okay, it’s all right. You know, I can still make it work. And when I had the opportunity to dig deep, that’s where I think a lot of it was rooted in this idea of worthy. So, we are all worthy, and we all need to keep our appointments, make our appointments and keep them.
CortneyJo: Or reschedule the ne—as soon as—
Dr. Russell: Or reschedule the next meeting.
CortneyJo: Yes because I think about, I had a work trip earlier this year and I had to reschedule a dentist appointment. I haven’t rescheduled it yet. I’m like, need to get—I love my dentist appointments, you know? I need to get back in there. Thank you for sharing that.
So, and you both can answer, or you don’t have to—but one or so—but why do you think that women often ignore the early signs of stress and burnout and fatigue? Why do you think we do that? I mean, you know, Jada, you mentioned the worthiness. Any other thoughts to that?
Dr. Russell: For me, in my experience in talking to others, I think it’s culturally we as women have been taught that we can absorb, we can continue, we can move forward. And I notice, even for myself, when I’m super stressed, I could be really nervous, I don’t necessarily present myself so I don’t show up that way physically, you know, I don’t appear to be nervous or stressed, but I’m really am nervous and stressed. So, then more gets added, right [laugh]? To your play, and eventually it becomes a part of your habit.
And I’ve now learned I’m at capacity. Like, learning the words and communication to articulate how I’m feeling at that moment. I may not appear to be very stressed, but I am very stressed right now. Perhaps we can revisit this at a later date. I’m at capacity right now. So, I think culturally, boundaries are not something that I learned to create. I’ve heard of them, [laugh] but I didn’t know how to create them, when they were needed, and then how to articulate a boundary.
So, now that I feel like I have the communication skill set to do that and awareness. I think I’ve been improving [laugh] to let others know when I’m at capacity. And then we all recharge differently. Like you mentioned earlier, I’m an extrovert as well, and I want to go to the event, I want to see the people, I want to go to the event, and I leave feeling recharged, you know?
But then what does that look like? You know, sometimes it may be contextual. I do want to go for this one. I don’t want to go for that one and it’s okay. Like, it’s okay for me to be okay, [laugh] and it doesn’t have to look a certain way. You know, consistency is great and I think sometimes people are expecting us to have this type of consistency to show up in these spaces, but sometimes I may not want to show up in that space in the same way I did the last time. And that’s okay. It’s all right.
CortneyJo: That’s really okay. I loved when we were having lunch last time and you were telling me that you were learning that. You was like, I don’t have to go to everything. And I’m like, “That’s so good.” Do you have any thoughts on that? Or—
Dr. Zambito: I would say ditto. And then when you were talking about boundaries, I thought it was interesting how you talked about it from a language standpoint. I do think that it’s kind of a newer concept to talk about. Like, people have had boundaries, right, forever, but we talk about having boundaries differently, like, using the word ‘boundary’ is kind of, I think, a newer endeavor. So, that was just interesting when you were s—I was like, oh, that’s kind of a new thing to talk about, you know, but it’s something to embrace.
Dr. Russell: It is something to embrace. And when I think about consistency, you know, one Thanksgiving, I may want to host. I want to have everyone over. And the next Thanksgiving, I may just want to attend. And it’s okay. It’s all right.
CortneyJo: That’s good.
Dr. Russell: Giving your—giving you permission [laugh]. Yeah, to show up in this space the way that best fits you at that time.
CortneyJo: That’s good. I love that.
Dr. Zambito: So, are you going to host us this fall?
Dr. Russell: No.
Dr. Zambito: [laugh] I’m kidding.
Dr. Russell: [laugh].
Dr. Zambito: No, I’m sorry. I’m sorry [laugh].
CortneyJo: [laugh]. I love it. So, we just talked about the heal. You know, Jill. I know you do yoga.
Dr. Zambito: Yeah.
CortneyJo: And do you do some things—I know your walks.
Dr. Russell: Exercise. I do my walks. I have done yoga before. Where do you—I mean, how often do you do yoga?
Dr. Zambito: The goal is minimally, three times a week.
Dr. Russell: Okay, [unintelligible 00:25:43].
Dr. Zambito: Can I shout out my yoga studio?
CortneyJo: Yes, please.
Dr. Zambito: Yoga Central. It’s right around the corner from the studio.
CortneyJo: [laugh]. And I’ve gone with Jill before, and [laugh] she is such a beautiful pro. I was sitting there, like, trying to figure it out.
Dr. Zambito: That’s the beauty of yoga. It doesn’t matter.
CortneyJo: I love that. You’re right. And that was good. One of the things that I like to do, that I have not been able to do, is go skating. Go roller skating.
Dr. Zambito: Okay.
Dr. Russell: Okay.
CortneyJo: And I love to go roller skating, Jada—
Dr. Russell: We’ll set a date.
CortneyJo: I don’t know if I told you this.
Dr. Russell: You have never shared this [laugh].
Dr. Zambito: We’re going. We’re totally going.
CortneyJo: We’re totally going roller skating. So, it is my jam, and I was going consistently for about a year. And then work. All the things started happening, and it has now been a year-and-a-half since I have been roller skating. Sometimes—I live in a cul-de-sac, so sometimes I get out there. I do.
I have an outside pair of skates, and I have an indoor pair of skates, and I know my neighbors be like, holding their coffee, looking out the window. Like, that lady right there, like, she just rolling around in the cul-de-sac with her roller skates on. But I love the roller skates. So, we do want to encourage listeners come up with something. So, Jill does yoga; Jada, she works out and walks, and I roller-skate. So, find your thing. Find your thing.
All right, the reset. Let’s talk about the reset. Spiritual connection, wholeness. I wanted to ask you, how do you practice giving yourself grace when you’re not doing all the things? You just alluded to that a little bit, Jada. How did that and what does spiritual reset look like for you?
Dr. Russell: So, the idea or concept of grace, I think, as a child, was something that you’ve heard about in the church, or you’ve heard about in context with someone else, but rarely with yourself. So, I’ve been trying to do a plunge on grace myself, and that has given me the space to do more self-care, more self-work. Because if you think about it, even, Jill, you know, I talked about earlier, about us being so ambitious and we pursue our degrees, that was also a time when we were investing in ourselves—
Dr. Zambito: Absolutely.
Dr. Russell: And we were okay with investing in ourselves in that way. And then took years, hours, days, months [laugh].
Dr. Zambito: [laugh]. It did. It did.
Dr. Russell: You sacrifice a lot to dig deep in that. But that’s something that’s culturally, you know, acceptable, it’s okay. You applauded. You know, it’s not something that people tend to shun, in my culture anyway, for where I am right now. But the idea of self-care, you know, how long is a massage? Or, how long were you going to be going to yoga? And how many days are you going to be going there? You know, how much is your subscription? What’s going on?
It’s like all these questions begin to flow, and you feel like you need to validate all of those questions. But just stopping and pausing and knowing that you are worthy, and you give grace and extend grace to others, and you are worthy of that same grace. So, and then for the spiritual connection, I have my daily devotional and then I also, just like I said, I really enjoy nature. I feel like that’s my time to really… have conversation with Christ to really talk, to see where do I need to grow? And I feel like I have an openness to growing.
You know, previously, as a new career person, you know, every year I usually do my resolutions around January and then July, around my birthday. And you know, previously, I’ve always included something career-wise, or, you know, maybe something with the family, but now I’m trying to add on these other virtues, like, what are some other things that I really can work on, like, patience, kindness, you know, self-love, for yourself. Yes.
CortneyJo: Yes. [unintelligible 00:29:38].
Dr. Russell: So, those are my things that I’m really thinking about. And as I’m thinking about self-love, I read a quote that talked about, like, your first love should be yourself, and I had never thought about it in that way. And spending time to get to know myself, so therefore I now know what I need, and then I can articulate that to my circle, like, my village that has offered help. You know, people offer help, but I don’t know what I need, you know, so now I’m working on finding out what I need, sharing what I need, delegating what I need.
Dr. Zambito: That’s awesome.
CortneyJo: Good. That’s so good. It is nice.
Dr. Zambito: I should be taking notes [laugh].
Dr. Russell: [laugh].
CortneyJo: I know [laugh]. Where’s the pen? That was good.
Dr. Zambito: For me, the practice of giving myself grace, I think, part of it is also, like, celebrating the pause, the moment, however you want to define it, celebrating it for myself, but then also of others, so, like, we’re not in this competition of, like, who’s the busiest? Like, that competition is not a competition I want to be a part of at all. I don’t even want to touch it.
CortneyJo: Amen.
Dr. Zambito: Amen. So, if someone is talking about their vacation, I want it go deep with them.
Dr. Russell: [laugh]. Me too. We want to see the pictures.
Dr. Zambito: Yes. Like, let’s embrace it. Let’s normalize it. Like, it shouldn’t be this… I don’t know, like, we all should take time for ourselves in whatever way that looks like, whether it’s an hour or a week-and-a-half away on an Alaskan cruise. I don’t know.
CortneyJo: She just did.
Dr. Zambito: I know.
All: [laugh].
CortneyJo: That’s amazing.
Dr. Zambito: The same thing with my employees. Not to talk about work again, but I think, like, kind of going back to Jada’s point, if we’re role modeling it, it’s in all aspects of our life. And so, if our staff want to take a moment celebrating that, and like, giving them support or permission, or whatever the thing is, so that they can feel like they can go and be healthy, so that they can then come back and be happy at work, it all kind of translates. So, really embracing the pause and, like, finding joy in it, knowing that the work, whatever the work is, whether it’s personal, your home stuff, or work stuff, it’s always going to be there tomorrow, right?
So, we got to let go. We got to let go of it. And then the reset. I also agree, like, nature is a great reset for me. Over the weekend, my husband and I and some friends went on a really beautiful hike. I’d highly recommend. I’m happy to share. And there were waterfalls, so it just felt like super joyful. And then when we got to the top of the… I guess it was a small mountain? Hill? You can just see the horizon. And kind of taking that awesomeness, and the true sense of the word awesome in is super powerful. And for me, it is a reset. Like, I am connected to this earth. I am connected to this land. You know, it’s, um, it’s just beautiful. So.
CortneyJo: It is. That sounds so beautiful. Thank you. I was, like, seeing it. As you were sharing it, I was seeing it. Yeah, we’ll have to do it. I love, I love hiking, by the way.
Dr. Russell: And I will say, I will echo your thoughts about enforcing it at work. So, when I returned from my Alaskan cruise, my boss and I had lunch, and it was amazing. She wanted to see the pictures, she wanted to hear about the food, she wanted to hear about the excursions, and for me, that was a wonderful opportunity for her to celebrate me, you know? So, you know, that culture can exist and give people space so that the next time you say you’re going to go on vacation, there’s no guilt.
You know, as long as the work has been done, you have properly planned for this experience, and you’ve delegated to or assigned someone to do work in your absence, I think that will allow all of us to breathe. But I know I have previously been in other environments where, like I said, if you want to go on vacation, you want to go somewhere, “How many days?”
Dr. Zambito: Yeah.
Dr. Russell: “How long?”
Dr. Zambito: Yeah.
Dr. Russell: And you want to come back at 1 a.m. and as soon as you take a break for three or four hours, you want to clock in [laugh]. And you won’t be the best CJ in that moment.
Dr. Zambito: No.
CortneyJo: No. I would have been—
Dr. Russell: You will not be the best CJ in that moment.
CortneyJo: Oh, my gosh [laugh].
Dr. Zambito: But shout out your boss because not everyone has that same approach. So—
Dr. Russell: Yeah.
Dr. Zambito: —that’s great.
CortneyJo: That is great. We do have an audience question.
Dr. Zambito: Oh, yes. Do it.
Dr. Russell: Ohh.
CortneyJo: I know, audience question. I’m so glad for this. So, the question is, it says, “How long would you say it has taken for these practices or habits of rest to stick in your life?”
Dr. Zambito: Oh, that’s a great question.
CortneyJo: Mm-hm. Great question.
Dr. Zambito: I think for me, I would say it depends, like, on the season of life. So, when Jada was referencing our doctoral work, things shift, right? And so, I remember during my dissertation—and maybe this will resonate with you—I remember the pause being that after I wrote x number of pages, I would allow myself to do a load of laundry, right? So like, I made the pause something that was fulfilling, but not necessarily rejuvenating, you know? But, like, you had to work with—
Dr. Russell: You still had to get it done.
Dr. Zambito: You just wanted to get it done. And so, like, at different phases of my life, I think that has changed. I think now I have a better balance in my life than I ever have, honestly.
CortneyJo: Absolutely.
Dr. Zambito: Yeah. And maybe some of it comes with age.
CortneyJo: Yeah.
Dr. Russell: I would say it has evolved, and I think it varies on where you are in life, this time you have available, you know, your seasons change. In college, I remember to go get a massage would have happened maybe once a year. Like, it wouldn’t have been something that I could have done on a daily practice, so I had a tennis ball that I would use.
Dr. Zambito: Totally. Yeah.
Dr. Russell: Because I couldn’t, I didn’t have the financial resources, didn’t have the car to go get a massage, but I still was… could feel it. So, just adapting to what that looks like. And then even if you could have a small budget, plan for your self-care. That’s something that I’ve learned, that I needed to do, and it’s okay that I have a budget for my self-care.
Dr. Zambito: Yes, let’s celebrate that.
Dr. Russell: Let’s celebrate that. That subscription to go to have your yoga, my subscription to get my massage, nails, hair, whatever it is with self-care, having that time to dedicate the resources, the financial resources, the time. And if you need family support to watch your children, or you need, like you said, time away to go do a hike, whatever it is, to know that you’re going to be a better person after you’ve invested in yourself.
CortneyJo: Hey man, you’re so right. And I love how you, you know, made mention that, you know, budgeting for time for yourself, even if it’s just a little bit, you know whatever that thing may be, you know, if it’s just enough for the nails, do it. Whatever it does that make you feel happy, feel good about yourself, we encourage, you know. Definitely invest in that. One of the things that has been new for me as of the last three years—and you all know, just some changes in my life—I never—like, I share this openly with a whole there was, like a—it was, I think, 150 women in this room, and I shared openly, I say, “Y’all, I looked up and it had been ten years since I had been to a hair salon.”
It had been ten years since I had walked into a hair salon. And that was terrible. So since, you know, just changes in my life, I have made a habit. I’m like, I get my nails done. I’m going to get my nails done. It was something I never did before. Never got my nails done before. So, it’s really new.
So, I just encourage, if this is new for you, it’s okay, you know? It just started for me three years ago. I’m 40, almost 41, now, but it just started for me three, three-and-a-half years ago, where I started just slowly putting some things into routine. And I think it’s the best thing to do. As you both are saying, it’s the thing to do. So, we are—oh my goodness, we’re almost coming to the end, the latter part of our time together, but I do have just a couple more questions for you before we get there.
And I’m just going to ask all three of these questions, and you can answer whichever one you want to answer. So, one question is, what are you currently unlearning about rest or wellness? What lies have you believed about your worth being tied to your output? That’s me all day, y’all [laugh]. How are you learning to love yourself without conditions? And you can pick one of these questions and any answer.
Dr. Zambito: So, the question that kind of hits me the closest or in a most impactful way, is the unlearning, and it goes back to this, it’s not a competition. Health and wellness: not a competition. Overworking: not a competition, right? Like we really need to focus on what Jada was saying, like, we all need to take care of ourselves and the way that makes the most sense for us, and maybe our families too, or our framily, as I like to say. And so, figuring out what that looks like for you, what does success look like for you, and how is health and wellness a part of that success, and kind of flipping the script a little.
CortneyJo: Lovely. Sorry, we do have some audience questions, too, but I want—did you have a response, really quick. I think y’all might want to hear these. It’s a couple of them. Sorry, I just saw these. So, two questions y’all, and one is, what kind of advice can you share for caregivers and having to have a healthy balance. Someone that’s caring for someone else—I’ll ask the second question next. But what kind of advice can you share for caregivers and having a healthy balance in taking care of someone else, maybe someone that’s ill.
Dr. Russell: And pouring.
CortneyJo: Yeah.
Dr. Russell: Constantly pouring yes, I was with someone, and I cannot remember who I was engaged with in conversation, but they said, “I’ve spent 20 years as a caregiver,” and they were talking about their parent needing care, and then when their parent transitioned, they became the primary caregiver for their grandparent. Then they became married, then they had children. It was 20 years of caregiving. And I think for me, initially, that idea of caregiving was—or something I’ve learned from my family—is something that you do. You pour into this person 150% right?
But you don’t know how long you’re going to be in that role. I think when we think of children, we see it as a limited duration. They usually will transition out 18, if they’re able bodied, and get out on their own. But if you’re caregiving for a loved one for, you know, they maybe have limited capacities to do things on their own because of something that has happened, or age, a health condition, you don’t know how long that’s going to continue. It could be five years, and you do five years, and you do, oh my gosh, you did five years, and you did great. And you, you know, you want to receive these praises.
But it could be 10, it could be 15. And I think sometimes people find themselves, like, it’s almost like holding your breath to breathe, but you need to breathe. Like—
CortneyJo: That’s a good analogy.
Dr. Russell: You have to breathe. So, finding out when you can breathe, coordinating, like I said, you might have to coordinate sometimes, if you are the primary caregiver, with someone else in that village, but you are worthy to receive that time, and when you come back, you are more rejuvenated. And then also, I think in my experience there will be less anger and resentment for being in that space because caregiving is something that you should celebrate, you know? That’s a wonderful thing to be able to do for someone.
But it also should have some parameters, just like any relationship. It should have some parameters and boundaries in place. So, finding the language to use and what works, finding that rhythm that works, so that you can return in that caregiving role, really ready to nurture. Because eventually you’re pouring from an empty cup. And sometimes a caregiving can feel that as well, and then it becomes a—
Dr. Zambito: Burden.
Dr. Russell: —a burden.
CortneyJo: Yes, that was really well said.
Dr. Zambito: Copy-paste. That was brilliant [laugh]
CortneyJo: I love that. Copy-paste. That was brilliant. And I love what you said about you need to breathe too, you know? And you do. One of the things that I do do well is, I do every six to eight weeks, I schedule in a rest break. I schedule in time to rest. Like, this weekend. I’m scheduling this in.
So, for caretakers, I would—everything that Jada says, I’m just going to add a little bit to that is that, can you schedule it in? Maybe you can’t do something weekly. That’s okay, but if you get every six to eight weeks, give yourself either one day, 24 hours or 48 hours, or someone else is helping, but it’s six weeks out, it’s eight weeks out, that way you have time to connect with someone else and say, “Hey, can you cover this 24, 48 hours for me?” So, that’s good.
Okay, another question. It says—I think you both will love this—it says, how can husbands and friends assist in supporting you with your self-care? How can the husbands and the friends do that in supporting you? I think that’s a sweet, sweet question.
Dr. Zambito: It is a sweet question. I mean, personally, because yoga is such a huge part of my life, I love that I get to practice with my husband once a week. And so, he likes yoga, but he’s a runner. Like, that’s his jam, but being able to do that with him, so figuring out what our health and wellness habits are individually, but then are there places where they overlap? So, that’s how it translates for me.
Dr. Russell: Oh, I love that. I would say my husband is very supportive, and I am working on articulating my needs. So, you know, I will notice, like, when my cup is running low, but stopping to pause—because previously, we’ve been striving, we’ve been going, like that, like, writing your dissertation, okay, I still have an hour left. I can go ahead and write this next chapter. Okay, I can keep moving, and you want to see that progress.
So, my husband will say, you know, “What can I do to help?” And I’m trying to now sit, to reflect, to be able to articulate what I need. So, I would say, from the spouse, patience, in that I’m trying to figure it out. I’m trying to articulate it. I may not know what it is, but I know something’s off. I know something’s not working.
And I shared with my dad, while my sister and my dad and I were on an Alaskan cruise, even in my childbearing phase of life, I needed help, but I didn’t know really how others could help me. Now that I’m out of that phase and I’ve been working with even some doulas, I now can articulate what I needed.
CortneyJo: So, could your husband ask you certain questions, like, “What do you need in this moment? I see how you’re feeling. What do you need?”
Dr. Russell: “What do you need?” And I’m working to identify, like I said, really, what is it that I need? How long do I need it? You know, sometimes it’s just literally going outside for a walk for 15 minutes, and I feel refreshed, but sometimes you may go for that 15 minute walk and you may say, thank you, I appreciate that time, but I may need to go to sleep early tonight [laugh].
CortneyJo: That’s good. I think, yeah, just being asked, “What do you need right now?” I remember, Jill and I, we were—[laugh] Jill was there for me. I was having a moment at work, crying. And I don’t know if you remember this specific moment, and I’ll tell you afterwards, but the kindest thing Jill said to me was, “What do you need right now in this moment? What do you need? I know you’re coming down from something, you’re upset, you’re crying. What do you need?”
And so, I think just that question. So, husbands and friends, husbands, friends, you can just ask that question, “What do you need right now? What do you need in this moment?” And I remember when you asked me that question, it was so sweet. I’m like, “Well, I don’t know.” I didn’t know what I needed. And I was, I think I needed a hug, and you gave me that, and maybe some coffee. And I think, yeah, we needed some coffee. You was like, “We’re going to get coffee. That’s what we’re about to go do.”
All: [laugh].
CortneyJo: And so, I think that if you ask that question, what do you need right now? And how can you participate in fulfilling that need? I think that’s a great way to help support in the self-care. Okay, so we’re going to do some closing takeaways. And I did just get a sweet text message from somebody that was watching and said, “I needed to hear this today.”
Dr. Zambito: Oh, I just got the chills.
CortneyJo: Yes, they said, “Thank you so much. I needed to hear this.” So, I just wanted to share that with y’all. Because that was a sweet friend of mine who said she needed to hear this. So, what’s one thing you’d say to the woman listening… or the, or the, or the fella. Or God knows, sometimes we have some our fellas watching. I love when the fellas are watching, too. So, what’s one thing you would say to a woman or to a fella listing who feels like she can’t afford to stop? What would you say to her?
Dr. Russell: I would say you are worthy. That would be the first statement. You are worthy and to make progress. It can be daunting, it can feel overwhelming, this idea of self-care, especially if you’ve never practiced it, seen it modelled. You may be the one that’s going to break the chain in the family, the first one to break off to go for a walk. It could really be taboo for some. And if you’re the first one doing that, just give yourself grace in the process, but you are worthy to start on this journey.
Dr. Zambito: That’s good. There’s so many things that I would say. I think one is listen to your body because if you don’t listen, you might have to deal with, like, larger repercussions, and so if you can take a pause early, it could, kind of, prevent a domino effect from happening, I think, especially for the mamas or folks that have families, like, thinking about the folks that are watching you, like, you can be such an amazing health and wellness role model if you do take a pause. And it doesn’t have to cost money to take a pause, if that’s a factor that folks are concerned about. There are so many things that we could do for ourselves that are free. And yeah, like, we deserve it.
CortneyJo: Yeah. That’s really good.
Dr. Russell: That’s essential in us to take that moment, to take that break.
CortneyJo: Yeah. I love that. It’s essential. I’m going to have some closing thoughts, but I wanted to ask you one more thing, if you could fill in the blank liberation looks like…
Dr. Russell: Sunshine.
CortneyJo: Sunshine. Liberation looks like sunshine.
Dr. Zambito: Joy.
CortneyJo: Oh, liberation looks like joy. And I would say liberation looks like peace. So oh, Jada, Jill, [unintelligible 00:50:15]—
All: [laugh].
CortneyJo: I love you both so deeply, so much, and I couldn’t be more grateful that you are in my life. You are two sisterfriends that life wouldn’t make sense without you. Life wouldn’t make sense without either of you, and I am so honored and blessed that you would give me some of your time today during your lunch hour, and I appreciate it, and thank you so much for all of your kindness and your words of wisdom that you shared with our listeners today. I know that this particular show will be on repeat a lot, and thank you to everybody that was watching. Thank you to all of you, all that were participating with us live. Thank you so much for the questions that you sent in. We sincerely appreciate your active engagement.
Now, I just have one thing I want to say. I just want to do a little closing blessing to the woman listening and to some of the fellas that are listening, too. So, once again, thank you both. Thank you so to every woman listening, may you give yourself the same grace you so freely offer to others. May you feel no guilt in pausing, no shame in healing, and no fear in resetting. You are not behind. You are not broken. You are becoming. May rest remind you that your worth is not in your work, but it’s in your being. May your lunch breaks be sacred, may your laughter be medicine, and may your healing become holy ground. You are deeply loved, divinely held and completely free to live well. Sisters, thank y’all.
Dr. Zambito: Thank you.
Dr. Russell: Thank you.
CortneyJo: Thank you. Thank you. Thank y’all. And if you want to hear anything else about the podcast or re-watch this, you can catch us at muchwoman.com. Thank you so much for being here and we’ll see you next time.
Dr. Zambito: Thank you, CJ.
Dr. Russell: Thank you. Thank you.
CortneyJo: Thank you. Thank you.
CortneyJo: Stay updated with the latest episodes of the podcast at muchwoman.com, and tune in on Apple Podcast, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever fine podcasts are available. We look forward to seeing you next time.